fucyouchinatsufandomcom-20200214-history
Madoka magica anime page
Regarding your comment on my blog: "Who said that? The makers surely didn't. If you pick up too much from what others write it can't be helped. Nowhere was it advertised as a deconstruction. That's what fans like to tell themselves." That is literally the entire reason that the show is popular. I'm shocked that a fan of the series would dispute this claim. "You throw the word predictable around as you like yet you think she should have just wished for infinite wishes? Okay then... Also the phrase "one wish" should be indication enough that something like wishing for infinite wishes is not possible." A wish for infinite wishes is still one wish; it makes perfect sense. The show is predictable in the sense that anyone with a brain could see its deus-ex machina ending coming from a mile away, disregarding the fact that there were better ways to resolve the problem. "Because everything she has experienced until then made Madoka what she is in the end when she decided to do so." ...what? She could have but they surely wouldn't come up with "Holy shit, if I'm out of 100m I'll die because my soul is in this thing and I'm just controlling my empty shell!"." ummm, yes they would have because Homura could have told them... ""It is not quite sure what Walpurgisnacht is. It is speculated that it is a combination of more witches, since the Walpurgisnacht is a real thing in Europe. Something where witches are the strongest. I also may refer to the madoka-wiki-article on Walpurgisnacht: "It's a witch that has grown from the combination of countless other witches. Walpurgis Night combines with other witches in the same way two powerful tornadoes are able to combine and become larger. It's essentially a "conglomeration"-type witch. Because it's so powerful, it rarely shows itself." - Gen Urobuchi" Same problem. Even if it's a collection of witches, why would Homura not just try to prevent the collection of witches from forming? You can't seriously tell me that this thing just appears out of thin air in a completely unpreventable way. The show never explains what Walpur-whatever is clearly enough to infer that. "Her wish was to relive the day she met Madoka. Thus she can only travel back in time to this very point in the past. The time stopping ability came as a gimmick just like the healing ability for Sayaka for wishing someone else to be healed." Wrong. Her desire was to prevent Madoka from becoming a Magical Girl; it had nothing to do with reliving anything. "Because stopping time uses lots of magic. She just wanted to stop Kyubey from coming in touch with Madoka. It's not like Homura could have known she will come up there because Kyubey called her." Homura has clearly demonstrated that the only thing she cares about is Madoka; she could care less about herself or her magic supply. This statement goes against her entire character. "Because he is an alien. That alone would be a plothole enough if you look at it that way." "Because he is an alien" is not an answer. Childish response. "What?" In other words, it was a deus-ex machina ending that undermined the entire purpose of creating a a different take on the magical girl universe because the ending undid all of it. "Well. That's mostly your opinion. I saw everyone in the show as the protagonists because all of them and their stories influenced Madoka to become what she was in the end. Yes. She may be not interesting - but which 14 year old girl is in the real world?" ...then you don't know what a protagonist is. Additionally, there is nothing realistic about Madoka, so don't try to play it off like she was supposed to be Evangelion-esque portrayal of a realistic person, because she is just the opposite. I've heard certain fans interpret that she is a representation of an unrealistic and irrational character from a children's fairy tale, for example. Also, 14 year olds still have personalities. "God forbid a 14 year old girl gets upset after she finds out her body is just a mere shell after her soul was literally ripped out of her chest by an alien just to fight until the end of her (short) life for a boy that was stolen by her friend." She already knew that she would be fighting and she would never even of had to deal with these realizations if Homura had simply told them the truth. I know she supposedly already did and they didn't believe her, but that is just unbelievably stupid; why wouldn't they believe her? I''ve already been over the fact that she could have visibly demonstrated that she was telling the truth anyway. "I hope not to sound biased at this point. But I did counter some of your alleged "plotholes" I think - and very objectively too. Not liking a show is okay. But liking it for objectively wrong reasons or points you for yourself didn't get is kinda stupid. I hope you get me. I give this review a 3/10 for not getting most of the show or interpreting it the totally wrong way. Sorry, dood." The fact that Sayaka is your profile picture, Madoka is listed as your favorite anime, and you took this much time to defend the show demonstrate that you clearly are VERY biased. This is further demonstrated by the fact that you feel the need to call a dissenting opinion "stupid", that you try to rationalize the shows failures by accusing me of simply "not getting it", and trying to act like an objective review is somehow 100% opinion. Whether or not Madoka is a deconstruction has nothing to do with entertainment value or it being an objectively good show. For me it doesn't even add up to the whole package. It's still a Magical Girl show. Just as you say people are just liking it for being a deconstruction I assume you are disliking it for being a Magical Girl show then. Makes just as much sense, right?" I dislike the show because, in my opinion, it fails at both being entertaining and conveying its overall message. You are free to enjoy the show for whatever reasons you see fit, but I don't see the appeal, especially if you aren't looking at it as a deconstruction. If you are interested in learning about the several symbolic meanings in the show and why it is a deconstruction, I would suggest asking Raptor1221, the gentleman who takes up most of the comments on my profile. He is a big Madoka fan. "You DO understand that being able to wish is relying on the karmic abilities each girl has or has not. Not every girl can become a magical girl. To be able to have infinite wishes granted would need infinite karmic energy." The show never explains "karmic abilities" in depth enough for you to infer what Madoka could or could not have wished for. If she has enough "karmic ability" to rewrite the entire universe, I don't think she's running low... "Yes she does. She is like crying the whole series until deciding what is right and what will be her fate. You just try to hard not to like her. I don't t hink you even know what a Mary Sue is. It's a term being thrown around all the time when someone tries to understand Madoka." Crying is not personality and being conflicted is not character development. You didn't even refute the entire point of that response, which is that she is a static Mary-sue, a term that apparently have never heard before. The wikipedia page on the topic doesn't do a very good job of explaining it, but here you go anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue"Yes they did have a reason to distrust Homura. Maybe not the most valid one as a spectator but they had their deepest wish granted. Why would they automatically assume a bad thing behind this one? That whole thing was treated in Episode 10." *Sigh, No, they didn't have a reason to distrust her, and even if they were skeptical (which, again, would go against the entire point of their characters), Homura had a means of showing them she was telling the truth. I think I've said that enough times now. "She did? Didn't you see all the articles and reports in her appartment? She knew it but could never prevent it from happening. It's almost inevitable except Madoka does contract which would mean Homura failed thus repeating this month." What articles and reports? You aren't trying to tell me that she had articles and reports about something that hasn't happened yet in her apartment are you? o_O "What-If-situations aren't exactly plotholes. That way every telling to date would have plot holes because everything could have been resolved in multiple ways. Stop using the word plot hole. You are using it the wrong way." Uhhh, I think you need to look up what a plothole is. A plothole is break in logical flow of the show, meaning that anything illogical/unexplained can be considered a plothole depending on its severity. Since these cases would have drastically changed the outcome of the events of the show if they were addressed, they are plotholes. Major ones at that. Does every show have at least one minor plothole/plot convenience or two? Yes, but again, other shows don't have giant ones like this one does, nor do they have as many. "Because Kyubey intended to reach Madoka playing the innocent victim as part of his masterplan to make Madoka and Sayaka into contracting. Was that part that hard to understand? It was like in the first episode." I meant in the scenes where Madoka is not around, such as the scene where he and Homura were in the park alone next to a bench (Its been a awhile since I've seen the show; I think that's where it was). "Fixes everything? Did you even pay attention? Magical girls don't become witches, they disappear. Human emotions, anger and wrath are now present in the form of wraiths. Just because it involves an omnipotent being doesn't mean it has anything to do with a Deus Ex-machina plot device just because Deus means God and God is omnipotent." I didn't mean "fixes everything" in the sense that the world is now 100% perfect, obviously, I meant in a sense that the entire conflict of the show is resolved in seconds and could have been resolved in seconds starting at around episode 6. You can attach/not attach whatever name you want to the ending, but it's completely awful. "Madoka is crying almost non-stop. I think I mentioned that before. How is that not being emotional?" I meant that she only has two gears; she is either crying or blankly staring at everything that happens around her. Again, crying doesn't mean you have a personality. I know that you aren't familiar with the term, but she is the second worst mary-sue I've encountered in anime thus-far. Ughhhh, I'm just going to start taking a less time consuming approach to responding to these. Sorry if I miss anything. First of all, yes, if it wasn't apparent from the beginning, all of this is my opinion. People interpret things in completely different ways all the time; that is the beauty of art. Something that makes no sense to me might strongly resonate with someone else and vice versa. Anyway: The karmic argument is bunk because if Madoka could "become a goddess", I'm sure that karmic energy isn't an object for her. You still seem to lack an understanding of what character development is; it is showing the series of events that a dynamic character goes through en route to undergoing some sort of significant change. Is Madoka disturbed by the whole concept of being a magical girl? Yes. Is she very conflicted regarding what to do? Yes. Did she draw inspiration from her mother? Yes. Are ANY of those things character development? No. She is the same character when she makes the wish as she is at the very begging of the show; a kind, naive little girl with no personality. It's not that I was expecting another Evangelion, it's that character they did give us was horrible if you ask me. If it was believable that Madoka and Sayaka would not believe Homura, I would be on board, but not a single reason is ever presented; Homura has tried this again and again and it never worked: I simply don't buy that. It is a significant break in the established truths of the show, going against the characterization of Madoka, Sayaka, and logic itself. You clearly disagree, but have not given me a legitimate reason for why you disagree. I don't understand how the articles demonstrate that Homura tired to stop Walpur-whatever; al lot of the documents were just cleverly referencing works that the show is based off of, such as Faust. Your explanation of Homura wanting to stop Walpurg-whatever in order to truly protect Madoka doesn't make sense because at no point does she appear to care about Walpurg-whatever; she only wants to stop Madoka from becoming a magical girl. Even if she was successful, Madoka still would have died around with the rest of the world, which brings a whole new level to Homura's stupidity. As for Mirai Nikki, I don't deny that there are plot holes; it's a mindless action thriller. That's like complaining about the scene in Black Lagoon where they jump a boat off a ramp, drop a torpedo through the windshield of a plane, bring the plane down, and then stick the landing. Does that make any sense at all? No, but it was freaking awesome! Madoka Magica is not a mindless action thriller; it is supposed to just the opposite. People hail this anime as "The new Evangelion" because of how deep, thought-provoking, and intellectual it is supposed to be. With a reputation like that, do you think I was expecting to find a crazy amount of plotholes in the story? No, I wasn't. How could the series have been resolved in episode 6? Well, even if you don't buy the infinite wishes thing (which you should, because there is nothing wrong with it; even children's movies like Aladdin think of plotholes like that), they could have coordinated their wishes; Madoka could have wished that magical girls never become witches and then Sayaka could have wished that all existing witches no longer exist; done. Can we limit the scope of this discussion so that replies don't take forever? I would argue that Madoka is extremely naive throughout the series. She comes across as a scared little girl 90% of the time who doesn't want anything to do with the big, bad world. Even at the end when she is making her wish, she is still just following her childish instinct to do what she believes to be inherently good; she doesn't come to any realizations nor does she have a deep understanding of what forces are at play, she simply does the thing that she thinks is right. She DOESN'T have any personality; normally people defend that fact by saying she isn't supposed too, I've never seen anyone try to argue that she has one. I guess I'm going to have to attempt to explain what a Mary-Sue is to you after all: A Mary-Sue is a character modeled to be an idealistic representation of a concept rather then a unique human being. In Madoka's case, she is an idealization of an average middle school girl; her friends, her family life, her naivety, etc, all of it is as ster eotypical as possible. There is nothing distinctive about her whatsoever, especially not her personality. Nagisa Furukawa from Clannad AS is the best example of a mary-sue in anime; she is kind, never questions anyone or anything, loves her husband unconditionally, and has stereotypical ambitions; she is a misogynistic representation of a "perfect wife" and has no distinctive personality what so ever. The only thing that can really be said about her is, well, she fucking exists. Same with Madoka. If Kyuubey's motives were the only thing standing in the way, then why is it when Homura finds out his motives in this timeline does she not instantly restart the process and try to tell Madoka and Sayaka the truth again? And this is still completely ignoring the fact that she could have visibly demonstrated that she was telling the truth. Even if Homura had managed to convince Madoka to not become a magical girl, she would have likely been killed by Walpurginacht, so what's even the point? It only just now occurred to me ho pointless her efforts are in the first place... While there are a few morons who think that Mirai Nikki is a "masterpiece", I didn't interpret it that way at all. It was just plain fun; if you didn't look for plot-holes (which I didn't) and just enjoy it for what it is, it can be very enjoyable, and to its credit, it had some very effective story-telling techniques (also some very poor ones though). It's an overhated show because I think people take it too seriously. When it comes to expectations for shows, it's not so much about what other people say, its about what I interpret the point of the show to be while I watch it. Are there certain parts of Mirai Nikki that are meant to be taken seriously? Yes, for example, the love story between Yuki and Yuno was played up pretty seriously, but to fair, it was very intriguing. Not necessarily good, but it was something different. As for Sayaka already becoming a magical girl, I forgot that she already had. Madoka could simply find another girl with high karmic energy then; there had to be at least one more in her class I bet. Then the problem would be solved and nobody would be dead/gone. Or just wish for infinite wishes. No, Madoka doesn't have a personality. I never said that was a plothole, it's just bad writing. Even if Homura never found out about Kyuubey's motives (I recall that she did for some reason), you are never going to be able to debunk the fact that she could have proved she was telling the truth using her soul crystal; this is still a massive plothole. If she is so desperate to kill Walpurginacht, why is she wasting literally all of her time dicking around with Madoka and Kyuubey? We've already talked about how she could have tried to prevent it from forming in the first place; the articles in her room prove nothing. Even if you are about to argue that she DID try to stop it from forming, why does it not work? That would be a crucial piece of information that the show doesn't tell us. I don't think it would be that hard to find just one other person with high enough energy; not that the show is specific enough about what karmic energy is for us to infer how hard it would be anyway... And no, infinite wishes would not require infinite karmic energy; it would require a set amount of karmic energy for each individual wish depending on the scale of the individual wish. For example, if I put Karmic energy into numbers that we can understand, lets say that eliminating all of the witches would require 100 karmic energy and wishing for a glass of water would require 1 karmic energy. If Madoka wishes for infinite wishes, then wishes all the witches were gone, then wishes for a glass of water, she would have used a total of 101 karmic energy: a finite number. The problem isn't that they didn't show every possible outcome, the problem is that the concept itself is not believable; there are too many things working against the desired outcome of the writers for it to be coherent. Why are you under the impression that Walpurginacht = a hurricane? There is literally nothing that suggests such a thing. You don't know that; there is not enough information given to infer it one way or the other. You are making assumptions simply because they better fit your argument. Also, this side-scenario only exists because you reject the concept of infinite wishes (for no reason) in the first place. Again, I must remind you that she rewrote the rules of the entire universe; I strongly doubt that she would be in danger of running out of karmic energy for any reason. Alright, this debate has become very repetitive and circular. I think we just need to agree to disagree on this one. Thank you for the discussion. :)